Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus - John Gray - ****

Note: I've read some of this book before.

Chapter 1

Men and women react differently to things and have different motivators. These differences are normal, and to be respected.

Chapter 2

The most frequent complaint women have about men is that they don't listen. The men either tune women out or listen just long enough to find solutions.
She wants empathy, he thinks she wants answers.
Men think: "I told you what to do, go do it instead of complaining."
Men should think: "She's just venting, I can be supportive."

Men don't know that a woman talking about problems doesn't necessarily mean she wants a solution.
-- or an evaluation
-- Women respond better to solutions postulated AFTER men empathize with them

The most frequent complaint men have about women is that women try to change them.
She thinks she's nurturing, he thinks she's controlling.

Men value skills highly
Men don't like unsolicited advice, REALLY don't like unsolicited criticism
Men like asking for, and giving, advice to accomplish things

Women value love, communication, beauty, relationships
They help, nurture, and cooperate
Talking and relating to one another is a source of tremendous fulfilment for women.
Women are intuitive, and love to offer assistance without being asked.

Women believe when something works, it can always work better.
Men believe when something works, it doesn't need to be fixed.

-- The appropriate response to "We need to talk." is "What's on your mind?", just remembered that

Chapter 3

Coping with stress:
Men focus and withdraw
Women get involved and overwhelmed

When both are stressed, women will talk and men will want them to shut up.

Men: don't talk about what bothers them
Men: figure it out or go do something else to forget

Women: talk about what bothers them to people they trust, then feel better for having shared

Women think that whether or not a man discloses a problem is based on how much he cares for them.
Men don't know how distant they seem when they're preoccupied with their problems.

A woman saying "You're not listening" translates into "I want your full, undivided attention".
-- A man saying "You're not listening" translates into "You're missing the point, now hear me out."

When women need to talk about their feelings, don't brush them off. Make them feel understood.
When women are stressed, they instinctively want to talk about their feelings.
-- their search for solutions starts at the feeling level

Women talk about all the problems rather than focusing on one at a time.
-- give validation, acknowledge her venting to you as a sign of her trust in you and care for you, she'll feel better when she's done
- if she feels she's not being heard she'll talk about more problems

Men assume women talk to them about problems because the women are holding the men responsible.
-- overlook her "I - you" phrasing, with its imputations of blame, and hear the message she really wants to get across.

Men talk about problems for two reasons: to lay blame or to find solutions.
-- talking about problems and not listening to solutions is called bitching
-- talking about problems and not listening to blame is called whining

-- Men only ADMIT to talking about problems for two reasons, as it is not manly to bitch or whine

Men think women are either trying to lay blame or find solutions, based on how upset they are, and react accordingly.
-- hahaha, sad but true.
-- women have a third category, "venting", that consists of mild to moderate bitching and/or whining - this is OK once a man recognizes it for what it is


Women like to tell the story behind problems in detail.
Men must not get bored when women inundate them with "needless" details
Men must not instantly snap into "problem-solving mode" once they identify that the woman has a problem
-- instead, enjoy the story and give her your full, undivided attention

-- I'm not providing emotional support for girls I'm interested in while they get their sexual support elsewhere. Instead, I'll direct them to their boyfriends, who will presumably fail and leave them SINGLE AND VULNERABLE KA-SHEWM
-- yeah, but seriously, not doing that

Something a woman can do is let a man know the outcome of the story in advance, then go back and give him the details.


Chapter 4

Men feel empowered when they feel needed
Women feel empowered when they are cherished
Men are motivated by need, but turned off by neediness.

In a woman's younger years she is more willing to sacrifice herself to meet her partner's needs.
In a man's younger years he is more self-absorbed and unaware of others' needs.

As a man matures he learns how to be successful when giving.
As a woman matures she learns to set limits and receive what she wants.

Instead of expecting a man to even the score, a woman should keep it even by regulating how much she gives.
When a woman remembers her needs, a man remembers his desire to fulfil them.

A man's deepest fear is that he is not good enough or incompetent. He compensates for this fear by increasing his power and competence. Success, achievement, and efficiency are foremost in his life.

Women are afraid of receiving.
Men are afraid of giving. They want to give but are afraid they'll fail, so they don't try.
To give more, a man must realize it's OK to make mistakes, OK to fail, and that he doesn't have all the answers.

Women use words like "always", "anymore", "ever", which men must not take literally.
Because many men don't understand that women express feelings differently, they inappropriately judge or invalidate their partner's feelings.
Never tell a woman how she should or should not feel, this invalidates her.

Women never abandon friends when they're upset, so it seems terrible to them to leave their men to their own devices.
Women often mistakenly assume that if they ask men lots of questions about how they're feeling and be good listeners, the men will feel better.

Why men retreat:
- they need to think about something
- they're upset or stressed
- they need to find themselves

Worrying for others is one way women express their love and caring.
Men show their love by not worrying.

A woman complains, "I still don't know how to approach a man with criticism and advice. What if his table manners are atrocious or he dresses really, really badly? What if he's a nice guy but you see he's got a pattern of behaving with people in a way that makes him look like a jerk and that's causing him trouble In relationships with others? What should 1 do? No matter how I tell him, he gets angry or defensive or just ignores me."
-- a sure sign that it is not your place to tell him this.
John Gray halfway agrees: "The answer is that she should definitely not offer criticism or advice unless he asks."

A woman can tell a man she doesn't like the way he dresses without giving him a lecture on how to dress.
The right time to approach someone with criticism is when the two of you are alone.

-- I have a lot of repressed anger relating to the need to be left in peace. I need to calmly, firmly, and maturely express that particular desire to anyone who's concerned for me.

Men need to find ways to show they care.
Women need to find ways to show they trust.

Listen without blaming.


Chapter 6

Men pull away to fulfil their needs for independence, then spring back like nothing happened.
Before a woman can open up to a man, she needs time and conversation to reconnect.

When men pull away, women run after them.
The time to talk to a man is when he's springing back, not when he's pulling away.

When a woman wants to talk or get close, she should do the talking and not expect the man to initiate conversation.
Women don't know men need a reason to talk; that men don't talk just for the sake of sharing.

A woman sharing her thoughts naturally motivates a man to talk.
When a man is demanded to talk, he has nothing to say.
-- not knowing what to talk about, or when given a subject, not thinking anything about it is noteworthy enough to require this kind of treatment
-- woman: "let's talk, you first", man: "what the hell?"
-- women probably want the man to talk first as a gesture of politeness - to show that they stand ready to offer their empathy and understanding to him
-- unfortunately, they don't know the male perspective: if he'd felt something needed to be said he'd already have said it

Men who can't share need to learn how to listen.

When women talk about feelings, just to share, men think just listening is "doing nothing" and lose interest.
- what the woman wants the man to do is provide moral support and empathy by listening
- women can make men better listeners by appreciating men when they listen
-- this changes THE OBJECTIVE from "tolerate her while she vents" to "help her share, or feel better, by encouraging her to talk it through"

A man not being communicative now means he will be communicative later. Wait for it.

One-sided conversations:
- when men can't take the hints that a women wants to talk
- when women can't take the hints that a man don't want to talk

-- when hints fail, be overt

Wise women trust men to open up more as they feel more accepted
It is more effective to teach a man to listen than to open up and be vulnerable.
-- try to teach a man this, he will end you
-- open up, maybe - be vulnerable, never


-- if you get upset at someone, have the decency to tell them the other reasons you're upset so that they don't think it's all their fault - or that you're a total asshole

"I realized I was blaming him for my unhappiness."
-- AAAAAH WHAT THE HELL, HOW WOULD HE KNOW

Chasing behaviors that obstruct intimacy
- physical: physically following a man as he tries to pull away
- positive emotional: worrying about a man, wanting to help him feel better, smothering him with attention as he tries to pull away
- negative emotional: disapproving of his need to pull away, acting hurt or resentful as he tries to pull away
- mental: trying to keep a man close with provoking words as he tries to pull away

When a man returns to a woman after an absence, he may find himself in the doghouse
-- the man must explain the nature of his needs: that he was away, but is back now
3 pages later, John Gray agrees:
Wise men grow to understand their own cycles and reassure women when they pull away that they will be back

To initiate a conversation, wise women learn to demand that men listen, not talk
-- "Let's do it, I need your help" vs. "Let's do it, I will help you"
-- "Let's do it, I will help you" implies the man has a need and is asking for help, both signs of weakness in male culture - only use this one if the man has approached you with the specific need he wants help with


Chapter 7

Women rise and fall in their ability to love one another and themselves.
A man assumes this is based on his behavior.
A man needs to let a woman hit bottom naturally, by seeing her through her journey.

"At first I listened, and she seemed to open up and share more. But then she started getting even more upset. It seemed the more I listened the more upset she got."
-- since women feel overwhelmed when stress hits, it makes sense to me that women would appear more upset as they got better.
-- when you're truly overwhelmed you focus on a couple things at a time: it's not until you're calming down a little that you get the clarity to remember the other things that have been upsetting you.

When a woman's unresolved feelings recur, a man may respond inappropriately by saying:
1. "How many times do we have to go through this?"
2. "I've heard all this before."
3. "I thought we established that."
-- I can see myself saying these, but phrasing them a little more nicely

"To support a woman when she is in her well is a special gift that she will greatly appreciate."
-- yeah right, she'll forget about that shit in a day or chalk it up to what a good friend you are
-- but, it's still worth doing if you care

A man cannot fix a woman when she's working through an inability to love.
He can, however, be loving, patient, and understanding.

When negative feelings become suppressed, positive feelings become suppressed, and love dies.
Avoiding arguments and fights is healthy, but not by suppressing feelings.

When a man can't supportively listen to a woman:
- accept the need to pull away
- understand her pain, and that he can't give her what she needs
- avoid arguments and reassure her
-- whenever you have to tell someone now's not the time, be courteous enough to tell them when the time is.

"If he gets to be in his cave then what about me? I give him space, but what do I get?"
-- not yelled at.
-- nah, she gets his support when he comes back

Accepting a man's need to go into the cave does not mean giving up the need to talk. It means giving up the demand that he listen whenever she wants to talk.
When a man pulls away, that's the time to get more support from friends.

When a woman is on the upswing, she can be fulfilled with what she has; on the downswing, she becomes aware of what she's missing.
-- this could get real old real fast if she couldn't reconcile these feelings on her own


Chapter 8
Note: I skipped over some of this chapter, my e-book did a terrible job displaying the tables

Men typically give what men want in relationships, while women typically give what women want. Each mistakenly assumes that the other has the same needs and desires.

A woman thinks she is being loving when she asks a lot of caring questions or expresses concern. As we have discussed before, this can be very annoying to a man.
Men think they are being loving, but the way they express their love may make a woman feel invalidated and unsupported. When a woman gets upset, he thinks he is loving and supporting her by making comments that minimize the importance of her problems.

When a man responds to a woman in a way that acknowledges and prioritizes her rights, wishes, and needs, she feels respected. When his behavior takes into consideration her thoughts and feelings, she is sure to feel respected.
Men need appreciation more than respect.

"When a woman feels that she is number one in a man's life then, quite easily, she admires him."
-- this is fine for a little while, but letting a woman feel this way for any extended period is her invitation to start better-dealing you to the curb.
-- a more realistic approach is never to let her feel she's number two in your life, and to put your interests aside for her when the occasion calls for it.

Giving approval to a man doesn't always mean agreeing with him.
Remember that you don't have to fully have to understand a woman's point of view to listen to her.

-- whenever people are angry, give them an opportunity to transcend their egos by asking them "What's this really about?"

A man feels empowered when he is trusted, accepted, appreciated, admired, approved of, and encouraged.
A way of showing love is to trust a man to solve his problems on his own.

"There are two kinds of men. One will become incredibly defensive and stubborn when a woman tries to change him, while the other will agree to change but later will forget and revert back to the old behavior."
A man's motto is "don't fix it if it isn't broken." When a woman attempts to change a man, he receives the message that she thinks he is broken.

-- reminds me of the portrait painter believing men were more vain then women. His rationale were that women were aware of their shortcomings and wanted to hide them; men, on the other hand, wanted portraits painted exactly as they were. The truer the likeness, the more pleased the man was. That, to the painter, was vanity - the idea that there was no need of improvement.


Chapter 9
Note: more tables in this chapter

As a basic guideline: never argue. Instead discuss the pros and cons of something. Negotiate for what you want but don't argue.
-- stick to the facts and don't blame others prematurely are also good tips

An argument does not have to be hurtful; it can simply be a conversation that expresses differences and disagreements.

"Practically speaking most couples start out arguing about one thing and, within five minutes, are arguing about the way they are arguing."
-- ahaha, I can see that happening

-- I just realized that women are not as likely to have practice resolving disputes - their culture is one of cooperation, not competition
-- this means men (me) should be able to do more than meet them halfway

Resolving an argument requires extending or stretching our point-of view to include and integrate another point of view. To make this stretch we need to feel appreciated and respected.
If our partner's attitude is unloving, our self-esteem can actually be wounded by taking on their point of view.

It is not what we say that hurts but how we say it.
When a man feels challenged, his attention becomes focused on being right and he forgets to be loving as well.

When a man neglects to honor a woman's hurt feelings he invalidates them, increasing her hurt. It's hard for him to understand her hurt because he's not as vulnerable to uncaring comments and tones.
Similarly, when a woman feels challenged, the tone of her speech becomes increasingly mistrusting and rejecting. This kind of rejection is more hurtful to a man.

It takes two to argue, but it only takes one to stop an argument.
Take responsibility for recognizing when a disagreement is turning into an argument.

"Intimidation always weakens trust in a relationship."
-- in a loving relationship, he means
-- I agree, except for the intimidation that comes from being impressed by someone - this is a building block for trust if they live up to expectations

Four F's for avoiding hurt in arguments:
- Fight
- Flight - refusing to acknowledge or improve an issue
- Fake - pretending there's not a problem
- Fold - giving up and shouldering the blame, the lose/win solution - I lose so you can win

When men say "all right", "okay", "fine" in an argument, they probably mean "Don't worry about it, give me some time and I'll deal with it alone."
When women say "all right", "okay", "fine" in an argument, they probably mean "I don't want to fight about it."

When a woman doesn't like something a man's done, he tends to take it very personally.
-- once men start basking in the glow of a woman's appreciation and trust, they forget she's as prone to dislike something as everyone else.

"She became upset that I would do such a thing. I became upset with her for being upset with me."
-- MY REASONING IS SOUND, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE UPSET
-- though at first glance it seems disrespectful not to give a direct response to the words coming out of a woman's mouth when she's upset, I think he's right in encouraging men to look at a woman's words as being symptomatic of her unresolved feelings

"When she would become upset I learned first to listen, then genuinely to try to understand what she was upset about, and then to say, "I'm sorry that I upset you when I said -." The result was immediate. We argued much less."

The most common way men start arguments is by invalidating a woman's feelings or point of view.
Repeated: Never tell a woman how she should or should not feel, this invalidates her.
Repeated: Women are often neither trying to lay blame or find solutions when first upset - they are venting, talking through their feelings, and will be receptive to solutions and questions of blame later.

The most common way women unknowingly start arguments is by not being direct when they share their feelings.
A woman feels, "I don't like waiting for you when you are late", but says "How could you be so late?"
-- the man will hear her disapproval, not let her know he acknowledges it, and answer the question instead of apologizing. Without the validation she wants taking place in this exchange, she may try and find it elsewhere - it's this search that'll spark the argument.

When a man hears a question like "How could you be so late?" he doesn't hear a woman's feelings but instead hears her disapproval.

"Just as women need validation, men need approval. The more a man loves a woman the more he needs her approval."
-- very true, we are despicable in our weakness

Approval is always there in the beginning of a relationship.
-- so, therefore, must validation be for women to be attracted

"Most men are too ashamed to admit how much they need approval."
-- I, however, am enlightened, and the proof is six lines up

"Women commonly interrogate a man about his behavior with a disapproving tone. They do this because they think it will teach him a lesson. It does not."

Critical reasons for arguments:
The man feels that the woman disapproves of his point of view.
The woman disapproves of the way the man is talking to her.


Chapter 10

"When a woman keeps score, no matter how big or small a gift of love is, it scores one point."
-- this can't be true, though I do expect diminishing returns kick in really fast with women

"A man, however, thinks he scores one point for one small gift and thirty points for a big gift."
-- this is definitely true, but it's probably more realistic to expect 5-10

Woman: "I am always doing things for you. I do the wash, fix the meals, clean the house-everything. You do one thing - you go to work, which does pay the bills. But then you expect me to do everything else."
-- no woman wants to feel like she's footing the bill to pay the bills

A woman could care less for how well a man does in the world if he's too preoccupied to give her the time and affection she desires.
Big things are fine, as long as you remember the little things too.

"A woman has the ability to heal a man of his addiction to success by appreciating the little things he does. But she may not express appreciation if she doesn't understand how important it is to a man."

"A man rarely intends to take more and give less. Yet men are notorious for giving less in relationships."
-- a man's stance is that he's there "when it counts" - he doesn't know that every day counts
-- plus, men aren't used to doing the little things until they've had a chance to practice it

Reasons a man stops giving:
- perceived inequality: "She's not holding up her end"
- they think they're even: "Unconditional love? Wha?"
- they don't see opportunities to give
-- it's the thought that counts

"When a man doesn't offer his support a woman mistakenly assumes he doesn't love her. She may even test his love by definitely not asking for his support and waiting for him to offer it. . . She does not understand that he is waiting to be asked."
-- oh god, I would fail that test so badly - I'd need hints or something
-- women make a mistake when they assume men are intuitive: "What am I, a mind reader?" is a common complaint, I hear

Men look for cues telling them when and how to give more. -- the hints I mentioned earlier
A woman instinctively does not ask for support when she wants it; rather, she's gracious enough to give the man an opportunity to provide it without being asked.

The score may be twenty to zero in a woman's mind and she may still happily do something for you - keeping score isn't as important as showing love to a woman.
Convince women it's okay to ask men to do more for them if they think the score is uneven.

"Women don't realize that men give penalty points when they feel unloved and unsupported."
-- ARE YOU SERIOUS
-- women not giving penalty points explains their willingness to see the good side of men who treat them like dirt from time to time
-- if I ever have to explain this to a woman I'll do it this way: "With women, it's like "I forgive you, why would I penalize you?": with men, it's like, "minus one, you're forgiven"

"Penalty points are destructive to relationships. They make a woman feel unappreciated and a man less giving."
-- this guy is wise, it was worth reading the book just for this
-- I'll do my best to stop giving penalty points to women, even ones who talk like they're giving me points off - they probably aren't really

Men give points differently than women. Every time a man feels loved by a woman, he gives her points. To keep the score even in a relationship, a man really doesn't require anything but love.
Women don't realize the power of their love and many times unnecessarily seek to earn a man's love by doing more for him than they want to.

Even if a man is not feeling his love for a woman, he can still decide to do something loving for her. If his offering is received and appreciated, then he will begin to feel his love for her again.
Women are very different. A woman generally does not feel loved if she doesn't feel cared about, understood, or respected. Making a decision to do something more for her partner will not help her feel more loving.

When a woman is not feeling her loving feelings, she needs to focus her energies directly on healing her negative feelings and definitely not on doing more.
-- when you see a woman feeling this way, invite her to take some time out and cancel your demands on her

"Sometimes women wonder why a man doesn't say he is sorry for a big mistake. The answer is he is afraid of not being forgiven. It is too painful to acknowledge that he has failed her in some way."


Chapter 11-12

"Jim was leaving the next morning for a business trip. That evening, his wife, Virginia, attempted to create some intimacy. She brought a mango into their bedroom and offered him some. Jim was preoccupied reading a book in bed and briefly commented that he wasn't hungry. Virginia felt rejected and left. Inside she was hurt and angry."
-- Are you kidding me? How the hell is a man supposed to prevent that? HE MISSED MY JAWSOME HINT WITH TEH MANGO AND TEH BEDROOM, I AM NOW HURT AND ANGRY INSIDE

"Jean left a message for her husband, Bill, saying that she wanted him to bring some important mail home. Somehow, Bill never got the message. When he arrived home without the mail, Jean's reaction was strong frustration and disappointment. Although Bill was not at fault, when Jean continued making comments about how much she needed that mail and how frustrated she was, he started to feel blamed and attacked."
-- He's insecure. I would have repeated that I didn't get the message, then tried to think of ways she could get it without having to wait until tomorrow - like having her call someone else at the building and having them get it on their way out. Reassuring her would come after that.

"Men really don't know how to respond to a woman's feelings. For the most part, our culture doesn't teach men what women need."

-- goal: be immune to nagging by
a) doing everything the first time I'm told
b) scheduling tasks that can't be instantly accomplished
c) letting women know ways they can help with whatever they want done

Say would, not could.

This "practice asking for more, even when you know he may say no" tip is for women is as insidious as they come. It pisses me off to think how manipulative this is and how willingly women, believing it to be little more than good advice, would use it against men. THE FUCKING ENTIRETY OF A MAN'S SCOREKEEPING SYSTEM ASSUMES THAT HE IS DEALING WITH REAL NEEDS. A man has no defense against bullshit requests a woman makes for the sole reason of guilting him into being more receptive to her next whim. The sad part is, it's probably too late for John Gray to issue a retraction on that shit, which means there are a whole lot of women out there testing the boundaries of their man's love in exchange for favors they don't really need done.

"My wife asked me to buy some milk at the store when I was on my way to bed. I remember grumbling out loud. Instead of arguing with me, she just listened, assuming that eventually I would do it. When I returned with the milk, she was happy to see me. She gave me a big hug and said, "Thank you so much. I'm so glad I didn't have to get dressed."
-- I am glad I spared you that horror by driving to the store and buying you milk instead of going to bed, this works for both of us
-- Seriously though, why the hell is this touted as a desirable result? Women don't need to be taught how to manipulate men into indulging whims they're perfectly capable of acting on themselves. Better advice would be to teach women that there are opportune and inopportune times to ask men for things, just as there are opportune and inopportune times to talk to men about things, and that requests should be consolidated whenever possible so that men can take care of them all at once.

Woman: "Would you do this?"
Man: "I don't feel like it"
Woman: "I don't feel like it either"
-- thankfully for women, men have evolved to the point where "You want it, you do it, fucker" is no longer their first instinct at this juncture


Chapter 13

"When we are upset, about 90 percent of the upset is related to our past and has nothing to do with what we think is upsetting us."
-- I'd like to know how he got those numbers, that seems wrong to me

The Delayed Reaction: the resentment that springs from getting something you wanted long after you asked for it

Love ebbs and flows

"Education theory states that to learn something new we need to hear it two hundred times."
-- that's cool, but I wish he'd cite his sources